Arc Of The Ark

[magnavox_23]

So Ark of Truth finally came out in Australia on Wednesday. I picked up a copy at JB Hi-Fi first thing (I was going out that way anyway), Chey didn't like sitting in the car for 5 minutes all that much. If the car is moving, she loves it, but once we're stationary, it's boring and she wants out.

Overall, I give the film a B+. There are quite a few areas in which I thought there could have been a bit of improvement, and certain themes could have been expanded upon, given that this movie was supposed to tie up the majority of loose ends from seasons 9 and 10.

The opening titles while certainly spectacular - Canada is very beautiful, were of course an attempt at making the film more cinematic, the movie-like sweeping aerial shots of snow capped mountains did remind me a little of the beginning of Ace Ventura II, oh dear :P. The only problem with this is, the rest of the film plays just like a regular television episode making the titles feel out of place.

The scene with the ancients in the mountain I don't believe was explained very well. Despite this, it was nice to see Alisen Down again and I love her pixie cut hair. On the decision of the ancients not to use the ark because it negates free will vs SG-1's non-questioning of the need to use it in order to preserve life is an interesting debate, which is the most righteous in both a logical and metaphysical sense?

On to Dakara, I loved the banter between Daniel and Vala - who didn't? :P And 'yammering' is my new favourite word. It was wonderful, and yes I did get that little thrill at seeing SG-1 once again in their element. The only one that seemed a little off kilter was Cam. His non stop one liners were reminiscent of Jack. They sounded like lines that would have be written for Jack.

One thing that struck me about the return of Tomin (yes I read the spoilers, I knew he was in the film) was that he was still kickin'. This film is set approximately a year or so (presumably) after his last appearance - Line In The Sand. And he's still walking around questioning the prior? Others have been burned for far less, yet this one man - husband to the mother of the Orisi and a Commander in their fleet is allowed to walk around questioning a prior? In his position, there is so much he could do to create anarchy. He is in a position of respect and power, and that could have so easily been turned around in order to steer others away from 'the path'. But aside from that, I did grow to like Tomin as a character in this film.

Daniel's visions - oh why could they not have taken the time to work on this better. Suddenly out of nowhere, Daniel is having all these visions and off looking for the ark based on this sketchy evidence? Pulease. Where exactly did his visions come from? Were they from his suppressed memories of his time as an ascendant? Were they given to him by Morgan Le Fay?

As a result of Daniel sharing these visions with Tomin, Tomin refers to 'Ortum Mallum' (as spelt in the subtitles) which is actually a quote from Christian texts referring to a birthplace of evil (as it is used in the same context in the film). The nearest I can tell, 'ortum' directly translates to mean 'risen' and 'malum' is 'evil'.

Cam's command of the Odyssey was a highlight for me. I thought he made a wonderful commander.

"Weapons to maximum"

"...It was a joke, make it go."

Teal'c's mentoring of Tomin while on the Odyssey was great. He was brutally honest - I'm not sure, but I don't think that has ever been done to that extent on Stargate before.

Odyssey going through the Supergate - very cool. The demolecularising of SG-1 felt like a throwback to Daniel's first trip through the gate in the original movie - this was also confirmed in the commentary.

I actually quite liked the replicator B story. I didn't think I would, because it would deviate from the main premise of the film. But, I was left wondering - who wrote the replicator program for the Asgard system? Some of us on msn the other night theorised that perhaps the Trust may have gotten a hold in the I.O.A. and that Ba'al or some other Goa'uld may have had knowledge of the workings of the replicators.

Teal'c's journey to Celestis was great. The musical score and choir really did add to the overall impact of the montage. Little tidbit though, it seems one of the shots had been flipped as Teal'c's white streak of hair was on the wrong side. This occurred at 59:48.

The Doci's chant during Daniel's torture 'Enim lupin purnum prauus intus' wasn't that easy to translate, in fact I could really only get a direct translation on the first and last words. The line seems to refer to something about the 'truth within' (lupin also means wolf, but I'm not sure how that would fit within the context). I am of course paraphrasing. I won't go into Daniel's torture here as I have written a sort of mini meta below with my thoughts.

Cam's fight with RepliMarrick, I thought was quite good. Maybe throwing Cam all about the place was a tad too much, but the visual effects were amazing. The Terminator-esque rise of the replicator skeleton out of the ashes of the flesh was awesome.

I guess the ending of the Ori arc was a little disappointing in that it seemed to happen quite suddenly. Flip the lid and the truth is revealed, Morgan wipes out Adria and we're home in time for tea. Vala's relationship with Adria was skimmed over in favour of using it as a tool for Daniel to stall for time to open the ark, and then what? Vala's story in that sense feels unaddressed to me. Perhaps Cooper spent too much time focusing on her relationship with Tomin.

Sam and Cam in the infirmary at the end was very sweet. I don't mind this ship - in fact, I'm surprised that I haven't found myself writing fic about them yet.

The ending with them all standing in front of that gate yet again was so much better than the Unending finale - no cheesy lines, thank god.

I have also been talking with quarryquest for some time now about Daniel's torture scenes. From her descriptions I was already getting ideas about writing a little something like this:

"Oh God."

"Your gods cannot save you now Daniel Jackson"

"That's just a statement of general dis-satisfaction."

Interesting words. I did think of the possibility of a double meaning in those words. Not only has the Doci shown up, presumably to either preach or torture, but the ancients still sit around and do nothing about the priors or Adria's followers. This dis-satisfaction Daniel speaks of could also be placed in the context of his abandonment by the ancients.

He also rolls over, presumably hugging himself while in pain.


This is classic Daniel behaviour, but quarryquest is much more adept at reading body language than I. But, this move to me foreshadows his giving up.

While quite short, Daniel is still on his side during his second torture scene. He is also in a semi-foetal position (probably a coincidence that it mirrors and reflects the position he had in Fallen after his descension) and this is him realising that the 'gods' that he has placed a certain amount of faith in are not going to help him. His eyes fly open in realisation.


The third Daniel!prison scene finds Daniel in the same position, possibly sleeping. He hears Merlin's voice telling him not to give up, but he's past that now. He calls Morgan on it from the get go. Morgan/Merlin tells Daniel that he must find the strength within. (I could go on about the religious discourse underpinning the film, but that would deviate from the deconstruction on Daniel. It would make for a fascinating subject nonetheless.)

Daniel is not having a bar of it. He rolls on his back - showing his belly in submission to a situation that he just doesn't have any control over. Conceding defeat not only to the 'Ori', but to Morgan and ultimately, himself.

Daniel and Morgan/Merlin throw words around for a few moments before Daniel calls her on her disguise and Morgan reveals herself. Daniel's smile here is both ugly and saddening.

He sees their rules as a joke. He also calls in the debt owed to him by the ancients for destroying the Ori. Daniel cannot stand the great injustice in this and his voice breaks as he half cries "Then help us!"

This scene is a conga line of slaps in the face for Daniel. Morgan's refusal to help, and then her reasoning for not fighting Adria and indeed Daniel's finding out that Adria is there. each time Daniel lies back on the ground. Prostrated. Morgan explains that she has taken some steps at least (distracted Adria, giving Vala a chance to get them out, healed Teal'c), but Daniel starts to cry here, he raises his hands up to his face, shielding himself from Morgan's words.

But this is Daniel after all, and deep down, he cannot ignore her. He listens as she tells him what he can do to defeat the priors - in essence showing him that he in fact has more power over the situation than even the ancients do - and of course Daniel, even after giving up for himself, won't stop fighting for others - he is still looking for redemption - worthiness. And in a way, Morgan had just given it to him.

Comments

[sg-wonderland.livejournal.com]

Very, very good look at the Daniel scene (my favorite part of the flick). Interesting that 'Red Sky' was just on yesterday, an episode which delves a bit into religious freedom of thought.
When the villagers are praying to Frer to save them and Daniel joins in, I think that's pivotal in showing that Daniel does, in fact, believe in some higher power.
And then there at the end, when Daniel comments that it might not have been the Asgard that intervened, Jack has this look on his face that says, to me, that he isn't comfortable with Daniel's belief in a power higher than the Asgard saving these people, answering their faith with a just reward.
I've seen alot of fics portraying Jack as a lapsed Catholic, I frankly don't really buy that because he nevers crosses himself or genuflects, something I think would be second nature to a Catholic, lapsed or not.

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

Very, very good look at the Daniel scene (my favorite part of the flick).

Thanks. my favourite would have to be a cross between this scene and the Cam/Terminator!Repli!Marrick fight. :P

And then there at the end, when Daniel comments that it might not have been the Asgard that intervened, Jack has this look on his face that says, to me, that he isn't comfortable with Daniel's belief in a power higher than the Asgard saving these people, answering their faith with a just reward.

I have thought the same thing. All along Daniel has been searching for something - his wife, Shifu, the Ancients. His journey is all about looking for something that betters himself (finding worth because he was unable to prevent the death of his parents) - which is where I was going with Daniel's faith in the Ancients still being there in the movie, despite what he said in Pegasus Project. And in the end it takes Morgan to say 'hey dude, you have to find what you're looking for in yourself, full stop.'

As for Jack, there's no point in denying that he and Daniel are sometimes as opposite as you can get. That and I find it hard to imagine him trusting in that way - in a higher being.

I've seen alot of fics portraying Jack as a lapsed Catholic, I frankly don't really buy that because he nevers crosses himself or genuflects, something I think would be second nature to a Catholic, lapsed or not.

Yeah, I've seen quite a few of those too. I'm guessing that fans are just slapping him with being a Catholic Irishman. I don't really see religion as playing much of a part of Jack's life. He is way too skeptical from the get go. I want to label him atheist, but I'm not sure. I know with my own beliefs, I'm probably about 95% atheist, 5% agnostic (weird ass shit in my life :P)and that tends to fluctuate every now and then - and I presume that would be the case for alot of people. Just listening to Jack's speech in The Shroud leads me to believe that too - and whether those words are from a lack of 'faith' or cynicism from dealing with the Goa'uld, I'd guess that that's where he's at.

[quarryquest.livejournal.com]

I watched this last night with the sound off for the first time and afterwards wished I hadn't. When you do that you lose what the voice is saying and just get what the body is saying and in that from the time he lies back on the floor and talks of Adria and waves his fists around its as if he's having a tantrum. Mind you, his hands and body language are all over the place a lot in this (e.g. the scene where Vala is getting Tomin out of his cell). When I get back home from being in the middle of nowhere I will have to have another look.

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

Daniel was definitely being dragged kicking and screaming towards his biggest life lesson in this.

I did notice his hands slip up a bit when he and Vala are helping Tomin out of his cell. That's quite unusual for Shanks too.

Enjoy your trip! :D

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

thank you for all this. i enjoyed the film in many of the same ways you did.

and i am very interested in the religious underpinnings of the gateverse and will continue to ponder that and try to work it into fic.

and i am also very interested in jack's beliefs and have pondered that many times. perhaps family was catholic, perhaps lutheran -- a case can be made for either or neither, i think.

*cheers*

and oh daniel. oh meep.

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

and i am very interested in the religious underpinnings of the gateverse and will continue to ponder that and try to work it into fic.

It's fascinating, and I'd love to see someone who knows a great deal more about religion than I do take a crack at it. I was raised Atheist, so I don't know much about it, and while religious texts weren't banned or anything, I just never felt the compulsion to pick one up. And it wasn't until the last few years that I began to see just how much of a hold religion can have in other people's lives, and to look at it in the context of the gateverse, well that just makes it even more interesting. :P

and i am also very interested in jack's beliefs and have pondered that many times. perhaps family was catholic, perhaps lutheran -- a case can be made for either or neither, i think.

See, this is how ignorant I am, I don't even know what a Lutheran is.

and oh daniel. oh meep.

He hurts so pretty. :P

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

one of the things i love about the gateverse is how rich it is. you can pick up so many threads and write fic about them or ponder them. archaeology, the military, women, race, freedom, family, love, death... it's all there. and religion is there, too, and often fanfic does a better job than canon of Going There.

I'm pretty obsessed with religion, but it hasn't gotten into my fic yet.

Lutheran is a flavor of Christianity, and it started in Germany as a breakaway from the Roman Catholic Church (serious oversimplification warning). A lot of people from Minnesota are Lutherans. So if Jack was from there, he might be Lutheran despite his Irish name. Maybe he was Lutheran on his mother's side. (Martin Luther King Jr. was named after the German ex-priest who was responsible for the movement/denomination/whatever.)

stopping nao! *cheers*

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

oh, yay! mini history lesson ftw! :D

That is very interesting. And I think it's great that fandom addresses the religion issue, because despite my own personal beliefs, I'm not gonna close my eyes and think that religion isn't there. It is a major part of history, and I think learning to understand it is a way of understanding ourselves.

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

may i say, amen?

hee.

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

You may, hehe.

Repli!marrick

[sg-dingo.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm... Is it bad that I got way more into the replicator B story than the ori A story? (Which is why I'm ignoring the A story for the moment and going with part of the B one)

Not knowing Who wrote the code is extremely annoying in a 'I wish I knew' kind of way I have to agree with you there.

But as he was 'making' the new queen I'm sitting there going 'he's going to be Daddy, since he's made them again. Because Reece (sp?) was Mummy and she only made them as toys and not weapons like he did'.

It was at this point pillows were getting thrown at me. From two different directions!

And then they did the 'he's being attacked scene' and made me doubt myself. But no they pulled through and he became terminator!repli!marrick. In another word Daddy. He was the protector of them, by beating Cam up and keeping him from blowing them. Although I do concede he Did have a replicator inside his brain at the time. BUT there was a reason they chose him...

What really, muchly bugged me though was Why wasn't there at least One more soldier in the room with Sam and whatshisface. I Know they were shorthanded, but the risk to them getting to the core from another way Other than the door I mean c'mon if they'd had that help Sam could've had more time to run the program. But then we wouldn't have the firefight and the almost getting Cam killed etc.

Ohhh the other thing that had pillows thrown at me was kind of answered. But the IOA must've known that the replicators assimilate the metal/tech they use to build new replicators and become bigger and stronger (remember that short lived Asgard ship the O'Neill..?). And I know they're arrogant.. ''people'' who think that the lights shines out of their you get the idea, but how could they be so arrogant/blind to think that the shutdown code would definately work! Stupid stupid people.

And since it's just past 1am and I'm not entirely sure this has all made sense (I think I'm going to dread rereading it later) I'm off to bed before I remember the other points I've made. Such as the amount of Teal'c whumpage! Damn them :P

Re: Repli!marrick

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm... Is it bad that I got way more into the replicator B story than the ori A story? (Which is why I'm ignoring the A story for the moment and going with part of the B one)

No, not at all. While it was odd to have the replicators as a B story in this particular film, it was very interesting nonetheless.

Not knowing Who wrote the code is extremely annoying in a 'I wish I knew' kind of way I have to agree with you there.

It's completely frustrating, because you just know that this is going to be one of those things that is never gonna get tied up. We'll always be left wondering. :P

What really, muchly bugged me though was Why wasn't there at least One more soldier in the room with Sam and whatshisface. I Know they were shorthanded, but the risk to them getting to the core from another way Other than the door I mean c'mon if they'd had that help Sam could've had more time to run the program. But then we wouldn't have the firefight and the almost getting Cam killed etc.

Only reason I can think of would be space. They're shooting that in such a small room, and having another airman in there means setting up another camera as well in order to get all the angled shots.

Ohhh the other thing that had pillows thrown at me was kind of answered. But the IOA must've known that the replicators assimilate the metal/tech they use to build new replicators and become bigger and stronger (remember that short lived Asgard ship the O'Neill..?). And I know they're arrogant.. ''people'' who think that the lights shines out of their you get the idea, but how could they be so arrogant/blind to think that the shutdown code would definately work! Stupid stupid people.

Well the moral of the story is (and boy, hasn't this been drummed into us throughout the show :P) that if you weren't there on the front lines, you have no idea what it's really like.

[lmichelle599.livejournal.com]

The Daniel torture scenes were hard to watch. The torture scenes period were hard. They did wrap everything up pretty quickly and you're right, Cooper pretty much ignored Vala's realtionship with her daughter in favor of the closure of the Vala/Tomin relationship.

Now you can go read my two missing scenes for AoT. :)

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

The torture scenes were so hard to watch because Shanks and Guinee gave such wonderful, moving performances. But a huge credit to Shanks really, for delving that far into Daniel's psyche and really breaking the character.

*runs off to read missing scenes!* :D

[chattycatsmeow.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling you put a lot more thought into the essence and underlying metaphysical meaning inherent within the torture scenes than the writers or actors did. It's a lovely analysis, though :)

My take was a embarassingly simplistic. I've been in horrible pain which made me curl up into a fetal position so when I saw Daniel curled up I thought "Horrible Pain. OW!"

When Merlin/Morgan appeared and rolls over onto his back (supine, not face-down prostrate) and stays there, waving his hands and arguing, I thought "Too Tired & Hurt To Get Up".

The whole time he was arguing with her, I thought "That's Daniel, even when he's exhausted, hurt, and on the edge of defeat, he never stops trying to convince those around him to do what's right."

I guess I need to take my brain out for some exercise more often. :)

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling you put a lot more thought into the essence and underlying metaphysical meaning inherent within the torture scenes than the writers or actors did. It's a lovely analysis, though :)

Aww, well thankyou for saying that, but I do feel like sometimes I am reading a little too much into things.

My take was a embarassingly simplistic. I've been in horrible pain which made me curl up into a fetal position so when I saw Daniel curled up I thought "Horrible Pain. OW!"

Aww, *hugs*

When Merlin/Morgan appeared and rolls over onto his back (supine, not face-down prostrate) and stays there, waving his hands and arguing, I thought "Too Tired & Hurt To Get Up".

SUPINE!!! That's the word I was looking for. All yesterday it was in my head and I couldn't remember the damn word. Hehe. Thankyou for that.

The whole time he was arguing with her, I thought "That's Daniel, even when he's exhausted, hurt, and on the edge of defeat, he never stops trying to convince those around him to do what's right."

Oh absolutely!

[chattycatsmeow.livejournal.com]

Aww, well thankyou for saying that, but I do feel like sometimes I am reading a little too much into things.

Maybe, maybe not - but the next time I watch that scene, it will be a richer, more layered scene full of depth and meaning because of your analysis.

I love having a fandom that thinks.

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

I love having a fandom that thinks.

Oh me too honey, me too! There is so much stuff packed in there. We're set for the next ten years on that alone. :P

[whisper99.livejournal.com]

Great insight to the Daniel torture and Morgan scenes. :) RCC and Shanks both talk about this scene being Daniel facing 'god' or somesuch. I'll have to see if I can find the related quotes.

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

Coolies. I might have read then if they were done last year or something, but honestly, I didn't read that many spoilers for the movies, unlike the show when I couldn't get enough.

[whisper99.livejournal.com]

Ok, now I think I remember if you listen to the commentary track, you'll hear RCC talk about that scene.

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

I had the commentary on in the background when I was cleaning up the other day. I wasn't paying that much attention, so I should go back and listen to it properly.

[sg-wonderland.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you guys get the same commentary that we do in the States. If you do, I'd suggest skipping the first 15-20 minutes of commentary..unless you like endless discussion of what type of film to use...put me right to sleep.

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

Hehe. It is the same commentary, but for me, I have an interest in film and television so it was a little interesting for me.

Enim lupin purnum pravus intus

[(Anonymous)]

If we take "lupin" to be "wolf" then I translate the words to be:
"Indeed/in fact wolf comparable/equal corrupt within" which could mean "Like the wolf, you are corrupt within" - none of these words lead us to believe that the Priors are seeking to convert them or save their souls, they are just condemning them.

Adam W.

Re: Enim lupin purnum pravus intus

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

Ooh, thankyou! I am very limited when it comes to Latin. That makes alot of sense.